Build talk:Me/A Vaettir HM Farmer
If I put this in the wrong place or anything please move it where it belongs so people can get to test it. Vertigo Inc I had a feeling I forgot something, thanks for moving it Life Guardian :) :Channeling+Feigned for Mantra of Earth+LoD? Life Guardian 11:03, March 7, 2010 (UTC) ::I tried mantra of earth , but found it annoying that I had to immediately reapply it after casting SF, or I would loose a lot of armor for some time before it recharged. Though It does work as long as it's reused right after you cast SF. As for LoD it initially give same damage as Cry of Pain under the SF limit (21 at 12 Shadow Arts), but without the degen and longer recharge Vertigo Inc :::Damn, i keep forgetting about the stupid damage cap. That's the second time i've suggested that on an SF bar =\. Also forgot they were both stances...sigh, i need more sleep. Life Guardian 20:35, March 7, 2010 (UTC) Can it work with ele? :) God Kamil :Not this exact setup, since you need both mesmer and assassin skills to fill the bar, I know there are Ele setups for this that also can do it under 4 minutes though :) Vertigo Inc ::I suppose you can use this for the ele: Build:E/Me Obsidian Flesh Vaettir Farmer latest posts on talk page say it's working still. :::That build can clear in 2-3 minutes. Life Guardian 20:35, March 7, 2010 (UTC) ::::I put on a timer and did a few runs with the Me/A bar, I do have max ranks though, but I clocked average runs in between 3 mins 40 sec to near 4 mins with this Me/A build. I've been told the Ele bar can run between 2-3 mins on average, so the difference could be up to 1 min on these builds efficiency. Though this is a alternative for those wanting to use mesmer characters if no Ele available or by preference, it's nice to know exactly what the difference is :) Vertigo Inc :::::Might want to try this tbh. Life Guardian 21:36, March 7, 2010 (UTC) ::::::Looked at the W build, looks nice, perhaps I'll dust off my W soon. I'm still going to use this build on mesmer while getting drunk minutes though ;) I'll make some minor adjustments in decription I think, then I hope someone can give some feedback after having tested this setup for mesmer. Vertigo Inc mantra of earth--[[User:Relyk|'Relyk']] talk 01:31, March 9, 2010 (UTC) :I tried mantra of earth, but since it got a recharge of 20 sec, and you need to use Deadly Paradox before Shadow Form you will cancel it, then immidiately reaply it after casting Shadow form. You might say "You Are All Weaklings" replace it completely since it will make all damage taken 0, while if I used Mantra of Earth I would still take some damage. In all making the build more unreliable Vertigo Inc :::::::Build looks great. I think it will be competing with the new 100b build, though this has the advantage because the other needs a hero to steal half the drops. --Chieftain Alex [[User talk:Chieftain Alex|''"talk"]] 23:18, March 11, 2010 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks, and thanks for the cleanup of the page :) I will add a couple more videos and adjust the guide a litte, just some minor details, after that I don't think it's much more to add realy. Did Runs with weekend drops now, and got them down to 4 mins when picking up '''all' the loot. Had to get the PVE skill "You Are All Weaklings" on my sin before I could test the reversed setup today. Vertigo Inc Stacking issues There seems to be a few stacking issues with SF I'm using on my assassin with full blessed. Sometimes i'm taking 14 damage from almost everything when all my enchants are up and others I take 0 damage, i'm thinking it may have something to do with the order of enchantments. -- 20:35, March 11, 2010 (UTC) :Well this isn't the build on the build page, and I got no idea what attribute points you have. I will assume that since you have Way of Perfection in the bar you mean to attack to heal up a little. That will mean you will cancel Dark Escape and probably start taking damage, also if you don't attack, there is no use for Way of Perfection. Even so, if you don't attack and Dark Escape last for the duration of your first shadow form, you will have to use deadly paradox before next Shadow Form, ending Dark Escape. With a recharge of 30 sec on Dark Escape you will have a downtime of at least 10 sec before Dark Escape is available again. Vertigo Inc ::Attributes are max shadow and max inspiration. Way of Perfection is there as another enchantment to fuel Shadow form. Dark Escape is there to get to Jaga faster, and to round up Vaettir faster rather than just walking. -- 23:28, March 11, 2010 (UTC) :::If you drop way of perfection and use "You Are All Weaklings!" instead, you can probably keep Dark Escape to save a little time running to the area, as well as rounding up the Vaettir. As long as you use the equipment on the list of this build you should be fine. The heavy prefix on the weapon is important unless you have Norn rank 10 or 11 though. Vertigo Inc ::::Norn rank 11 :O HAX! Ashes 10:06, March 12, 2010 (UTC) :::::hehehe, yes I was recalling 11 being listed so I just filled it in, but it's correct it can't be higher than 10 without signet of illusions :) Vertigo Inc ::::::Guys cmon you are completely missing the point of this. The build I posted does work, i'm asking for build help. I am saying that there is a bug with Shadow Form, and that it has stacking issues.......-- 11:36, March 12, 2010 (UTC) :::::::Sorry but I can't say I've seen any of it yet, not on mesmer or Assassin, so I can't be of much help before I notice it myself Vertigo Inc ::::::::Got to test with sin and found the stacking issue, it's no real worry as long as you recast 1 of the other sin enchants right after SF--Vertigo Inc 16:37, May 3, 2010 (UTC) Build Reversed for Assassin/Mesmer Attributes and Skills name="build: Me/A Vaettir HM solo farm -> Reversed for Assassin / Mesmer" prof=a/me shadow=12+1+3 deadly=3 inspiration=12paradoxformare all weaklingsescapeof distresschannelingof painnightmare/build Feigned Neutrality vs Dark Escape The build can be used with Feigned Neutrality, but the Assassin will be slower than the Mesmer using it's primary attribute Fast Casting. I clocked runs between 4 minutes 05 seconds to 4 minutes 25 seconds with my assasin when picking up all loot with the Assassin. When I changed from Feigned Neutrality to Dark Escape on mesmer I did speed it up a little, but it also became a bit more risky because of the 10 AL difference vs the Assassin So for comfort and reasonable speed I'd go with Feigned Neutrality on mesmer, but if any time saved is important and you are comfortable with it, go with Dark Escape. Will add videos of the Mesmer and Assassin using Dark Escape at the main page, as well as Dark Escape as an optional skill for the mesmer Vertigo Inc :Added The videos, don' think I have much more to add. Where does it go from here?--Vertigo Inc 11:38, March 14, 2010 (UTC) ::The timer shown in the videos are TimeLeft3 in case anyone wonder. I found that the only reliable way to get excact time was to use a timer, since video decoding and exporting seems to skew times. --Vertigo Inc 14:52, March 14, 2010 (UTC) :::I don't find a lot more to add. From what I see on the PvXwiki:Real Vetting page I can move it to testing I suppose.--Vertigo Inc 00:09, March 17, 2010 (UTC) name="build: Me/A Vaettir HM solo farm -> Reversed for Assassin / Mesmer" prof=a/me shadow=12+1+3 inspiration=12echoformof distressof perfectiondwarf armorof earthnightmareof pain/build Put the info over here not knowing you had a discussion already going here. Sardaukar 15:46, March 21, 2010 (UTC) :I've not tried this, but I could give it a try when I get time, hopefully before easter event, it will keep mantra of earth up all the time, but can only be used by assassin primary.--Vertigo Inc 07:16, March 29, 2010 (UTC) if anyone cares based on the stacking research somewhere above, might as well equip a scythe, and crit agility... maybe other stuff but not really and there is all your armor needs for future assassin primary shadowform builds 03:31, March 25, 2010 (UTC) Merging If merging, the usage for all setups would have to be included. There is some minor differences, but they will need seperate instructions. The other mesmer setup could possibly be merged, but the assassin/mesmer one I don't think would fit in. It's getting messy realy fast if mixing a lot of setups. Could use some more tests/ratings on all these builds. Perhaps with easter up people will get around to try them out and rate. --Vertigo Inc 22:42, March 28, 2010 (UTC) Testing Seeing as easter event is soon here, Chocolate Bunnies and Golden Egg's ahead :) It would be nice if someone with a mesmer/assassin, and the skills required, would find some time to test this and rate it.--Vertigo Inc 07:32, March 29, 2010 (UTC) :I've been able to test this with Norn rank 2 and 9 sec Weakness (using heavy spearhead) and the vaettir is only taking down the hp a little in the Weakness downtime. It's fully doable to drop the heavy spearhead if your norn rank is high, not sure where that limit would go though.--Vertigo Inc 16:35, May 3, 2010 (UTC) After Update - Friday, May 21, 2010 *Tested it after the update, functionality still the same, but time on runs is longer. *Cry of Pain: increased recharge from 12 to 15 seconds. - This had minimal impact. *Ether Nightmare: increased recharge from 15 to 25 seconds. - This add 1 minute to the run in total. *Also tested replacing Ether Nightmare with the new Wastrel's Worry (now also deals its damage to all adjacent foes) The result was times down to 4 minutes again, possibly faster with some runs to get used to it. The only skill the Spectral Vaettir can use is Lyssa's Aura, so hitting ww + CoP will in most cases let CoP trigger. Unless the Vaettir renew Lyssas Aura in that short window between ww and CoP. Wondering if I should adjust the skillbar or adjust the time from 4 to 5 minutes and add ww as an option to get back to 4 minutes or less pr run.--Vertigo Inc 22:27, May 22, 2010 (UTC) :I think that if Ether Nightmare nerf affects the build so much, then the mainbar should be changed. also, does "adjacent" affect mobs directly opposite you? As in, if I cast on the mob directly infront, will it hit the one directly behind me? -- 22:58, May 22, 2010 (UTC) ::I'll change the mainbar and adjust notes accordingly for use with ww and list Ether Nightmare as an option for those that don't mind the speed difference of around 1 minute, and/or are to lazy to spam ww. After 5 runs today I hit times just below 4 minutes zone to rezone. It's pretty much the same usage as earlier, just need to wait for ww to trigger before you reapply it. Need to get to my other pc before I can put up an adjusted video.--Vertigo Inc 20:53, May 25, 2010 (UTC) Updated the build and guide, might rephrase some more in a day or two when I upload new videos--Vertigo Inc 22:00, May 25, 2010 (UTC) :Added a video using Wastrel's Worry. Do anyone have any idea why youtube mess up the timelines in my videos when converting? My original file is a normal mpg that are just 4 minutes, but after I upload and youtube convert it, it suddenly is 5 minutes and 20 some sec. I've omitted the problem using timeleft3, but it's getting pretty annoying.--Vertigo Inc 14:39, May 28, 2010 (UTC) I made some adjustment to take the new fast casting into account, adjusted points to: name="build: Me/A Vaettir HM solo farm" prof=me/a shadow=12 fast=11+3 inspiration=6+3+1paradoxformare all weaklingsneutralityof distresschannelingof painNightmare/build Found that runs can be done in 3 mins 45 sec as long as the spawns aren't to messed up. With these adjustments to points it makes ether nightmare more efficient than before the update. Wastrel's Worry however come in at a good second hitting times down to 4 minutes sharp. Should we list these 2 options as seperate templates ? Usage are almost the same, but seeing as this makes it faster for less work it might be just as well to put ww under optionals?--Vertigo Inc 23:01, June 1, 2010 (UTC) Compared to A/Mo As far as I can see, this build is slower and has less survivability than the A/Mo version, the main reason I love the vaettir farm is how fast it is, despite the only almost decent drops from it, slowing it down makes many other farms much more viable. Eive Windgrace 04:34, May 25, 2010 (UTC) :I was running this duo with a A/Mo friend before this last update, alternating who took S & N spawns on each zone. Who finished first was only down to the spawns, so it's not a big difference in speed. when it comes to surviving it's pretty much down to the same level as any SF build, except you don't have the stacking issue since you use weakness to reduce the damage instead.--Vertigo Inc 20:45, May 25, 2010 (UTC) Elemental Resistance + Channeling The third variant suggests them at inspiration 11. At that level Mantra of Earth reduces damage by 44%, which is quite close to the halfed damage by +40 armor (el. resistance), and delivers energy. One could save one slot. -- 22:30, August 25, 2010 (UTC) :Didn't see this before now, I'll take a look at it when I get the time, IRL is quite busy right now ;) (ops forgot to sign) --Vertigo Inc 22:48, August 25, 2010 (UTC) Legendary Survivor I want to get survivor on my mes because I'm bad at GW so I pve. Is there any chance of death if I'm paying attention to what I'm doing and have ideal equipment? P.S. I hate Kilroy's. Edit: Nevermind, I died from a bodyblock. Why does this get its own page? If it has no advantages over A/Me at all, it should be left as a note on the assassin build (and it is). A Mo/A was recently WELL'd for just that reason. --Toraen 12:55, 17 October 2010 (UTC) :Not sure about the times for the A/Mo and A/Me build these days, but before the fast casting update it was around the same. Now this should be faster. Besides that, when it's working and one of few builds for mesmers, why shouldn't it be around?--Vertigo Inc 16:59, October 20, 2010 (UTC) ::The first two mainbars currently on the page are definitely slower than the current A/Me. If I update this, it'll basically be a dupe. Mesmers don't have 'few' builds anymore, not ever since their buff. The fast casting buff is not really all that significant here (it takes 1 second of the recharge of WD, which is the primary source of damage). You'll still probably want to AEcho it to speed things up. The cast times of the damage spells are already really short anyway (except for Ether Nightmare, which you shouldn't be using since you can use 2x tab-WD for more damage in the time it takes to cast EN). Also, the mesmer's SF has a lower damage cap than an assassin's. --Toraen 01:33, 24 October 2010 (UTC) :::I've not had a chance to test the Sin setup myself, but I did test the ww/wd alternative on mesmer earlier. I still prefer the ether nightmare setup over the ww/wd setups. Mainly since it's not giving stragglers at all and are less keyboard smashing, while the ww/wd setups tend to give a few you need to kill off after the rest. I still think 4 builds, where 1 are the old 55, and 1 are a single boss farm, are few builds, only paragon are worse off if you look at all the pvx farming builds. Also the Me need to have extra heal compared to the sin builds, having 10 armor less. That is unless you go with the elemental resistance bar of course. While that works it let through a damage spike every time one need to renew SF. I'll get around to test the A/Me setup before the event is over I hope, then I'll have a better base to compare the builds. --Vertigo Inc 22:32, October 27, 2010 (UTC) ::::If you're getting stragglers, you need to ball them tighter. --Toraen 23:12, 27 October 2010 (UTC)